| |
Getting Signed
 STARPOLISH:
Let’s talk about getting signed in 1995 by RCA -- how did
that come about? You guys had put out two albums under your own
label. Can you talk a little about getting signed by RCA, and
contrast your experience being on sort of a homegrown indie label
versus the majors, and what that really means?
BROWN: Well,
it was always a goal to be signed, because we wanted to be heard
by more people, and that was the impetus. And also to experience
it a little bit more. You can go out in a van and do a tour and
promote an independent album, but there is only so much you can
do, and there is only so much that’s going to be afforded to you,
without delving into the resources that a major label has, or
a major booking agency, or a management company. And all of these
things, fortunately for The Verve Pipe, fell into step very logically
and very timely. From the onset we had an album out, and then
did a second album, and between those albums I think we [sold]
around 40,000 copies of our independent music, and had created
enough of a buzz in Michigan that we were now playing in St. Louis,
Chicago, Columbus, Cleveland, all the way down to Cincinnati and
Kentucky. And [we were] branching out -- Indianapolis, and all
these places where we were now playing gigs, we would just turn
around and play another night somewhere else. But then … we wanted
to stay out for a while, and we really wanted to be able to do
a tour, where we could be away for two months. And it just wasn’t
fiscally possible back then, without having to come back to Michigan
to where we were making a bigger dollar to be able to afford to
go back out.
STARPOLISH: So you actually didn’t
sustain yourselves doing those gigs?
BROWN: No
we absolutely did sustain ourselves, but we wanted to go even
further. I mean, believe me, The Verve Pipe did very well as an
independent, but we weren’t being played on radio, which is a
very big thing, we weren’t being promoted correctly, and we wanted
to expand, simply put. And I think that’s where a label comes
in. It’s everybody’s dream –“Yeah, I want to be on a record label!”
I really do have that passion for holding up a piece of vinyl
or a CD and saying, “Wow this is me, this is ours.” But it’s so
simple now, you know -- anyone can do it in their bedroom, and
it’s taken the romanticism out of it. There are so many bands
and so many artists these days …and so many that really don’t
matter. But to get back to the question … (laughs)
STARPOLISH: Did RCA see that you
had built it up to a certain point by yourselves? Because I think
sometimes that bands forget that -- that most labels want to sign
a group that’s already proven that they are successful in a local
market, or they have gotten to a point where [the label] can says
it’s an investment on their part – it’s not like they’re these
altruistic guys…
BROWN: Or,
if they are altruistic, it’s usually on the persona or the songs
of somebody, and they see them at more of infancy stage --like
the story of Jeff Buckley, which I’m reading right now -- and
where they just see raw talent. And I think they saw in our band
a little bit of both: guys who were willing to work, to make the
machine work, and at the same time, serious about music, and serious
about what they could do.
Indies vs. Majors
STARPOLISH: What do you see as
the big difference between indie and major labels -- is it just
reach?
BROWN: Yeah,
I think it is reach. But there are some things you do give up
in the mix. But you hopefully have people you trust to give it
up to, so that you’re not giving it up to some buffoon – you’re
giving it up to someone who is knowledgeable to make the choice,
“This is better than this,” or “I think this would work more than
this.” That’s why people do radio for a living at RCA, or do promotion
for a living, or A&R work with bands for a living. And that’s
all part of the process. And for me it’s kind of comforting, because
I know these people on a first-name basis, and even when an album
is not doing well, they still don’t bullshit you.
| "Courtney
Love will do any fucking thing if there's a reporter nearby,
I really believe that." |
STARPOLISH: Obviously, with the
whole environment the last couple of years, major labels have
been slammed, not only by the indie music contingent but also
by major artists like Courtney Love and Prince, who have come
out and said it’s just a bad situation.
BROWN: Yeah,
but you know, I wouldn’t put Courtney Love in the same sentence
with Prince when it comes to talent. But for somebody like Prince
it’s sort of like, “Do whatever the fuck you want, who said you
need a label?” And he tried it, and I don’t think it’s happened
for him.
STARPOLISH: It’s funny because
the big issue seemed like he just wanted to release more music.
BROWN: Yeah
… I understand the label not wanting to put more product into
the market, while some other piece is still selling -- why give
somebody else a choice, and still incur the expense of putting
it out? I understand that from a business standpoint, and I’m
sure Prince realized it, too -- that once you get into that sort
of thing, once you get into line with the record company, it’s
business. It’s business, you know? But as far as Courtney Love,
I think she is in a little bit of a dispute right now. Knowing
that the last Hole album cost X amount of dollars to make, for
her to start slamming the record company knowing that they bankrolled
the whole thing, and that they are the ones sitting on this debt,
is kind of childish.
STARPOLISH: Well, it’s interesting,
because she is basically trying to get a California law overturned,
having to do with personal service contracts…
BROWN: Courtney
Love will do any fucking thing if there’s a reporter nearby, I
really believe that.
STARPOLISH: She is definitely
being embraced by the indie community at this point as someone
who has sort of had it all, and is giving it up cause she feels
its an unjust system.
BROWN: She’s
a fucking wave rider, and you and I know it. I believe that she
would … the fact that she would go on tour with Marilyn Manson
with her band is just ridiculous to me. There are two bands that
don’t make sense -- but they did it ‘cause it’s good press and
it blew up. Because they both had mediocre albums and mediocre
sales.
STARPOLISH: Yeah -- what do you
expect in terms of crowd reaction when you have bands that are
so different?
BROWN: Yes,
absolutely. But you know, Entertainment Weekly put their faces
on the cover because it’s a rock ‘n’ roll tour with two people
who are “celebrities.” Do you read [online magazine] The Onion?
They had a little headline, “ Is Marilyn Manson going door-to-door
trying to scare people?” And I just laughed my ass off -- it’s
really gotten to that. I’d rather just listen to what’s coming
out of speakers and weigh it instead of [wondering], “Did Courtney
Love show her tits again on the Howard Stern show again?” Whatever….
The Internet’s Promise
STARPOLISH: You mentioned radio previously, saying
that having RCA behind you made radio airplay a little bit easier.
Is radio still a key component in a band taking it to another
level? And is the Internet, or the promise of the Internet, with
downloads and Internet radio and all, able to have a similar effect?
Do you see that happening in the future?
BROWN: Well, I’m quite Internet
ignorant. I would hope that it would happen, because I think anything
opening up lines of communication like that would be great. And
I do know that radio is a tight little community. That’s one thing
-- a major label is going to get to be played more than an independent
because a major label has an artist that the radio can get people
to listen to when they have their new album. It’s all logical
-- it all follows in line -- but it’s all very businesslike. And
I think the Internet will probably be the same. I think any form
of communication between humans, electronic especially, whether
it’s selling something at a Wal-Mart, or downloading something,
it’s going to be major companies. Businesses are going to dip
their hands in it in a big way because it means money. And that’s
exactly what happened with Napster being snuffed out. What happened
with Napster, are they just dead in the water?
STARPOLISH: It’s hard to say right now, a lot of it
is the RIAA still complaining that the filtering system that they
instituted has been ineffectual. You saw a 25% decrease [in traffic]
when they started removing stuff. [NOTE: Since this interview,
Napster has been purchased by BMG and is moving to a licensed
subscription service, which is expected to kick off this fall
– Ed.] The thing is that Napster is just one of five or six file-sharing
programs that allow you to do that. So, I sort of feel like it’s
like a whack-a-mole game, where you bang down Napster, and Gnutella
pops up and does the same thing. The thing that seems weird to
me is at some point, the labels are going to have to start holding
the consumers accountable -- and that’s an ugly situation where
the label ultimately goes after their own customer.
BROWN: I pity the fucker
who is the first one
STARPOLISH: Yeah, there’s going to be a test case,
who’s going to be made an example of…
BROWN: Absolutely. And like
I said, I pity the person who’s going to be the one. They are
going to get fucked, ‘cause that’s the way it is.
STARPOLISH: Well, as an artist who has copyrights
and that has a vested interest in music publishing, where do you
stand on the whole Napster thing?
BROWN: I think people should
make their own choices. If you want to release music -- there
was a cry from the indie community … if the indie community wants
to release music and let people hear it for free, all the more
power to them. But when somebody grabs a record, like the Dave
Matthews record, from the assembly line of the CD printing company,
takes it to a Kinko’s and downloads it so that everyone can hear
the Dave Mathews record early, that’s a bit of a drag. Because
this company has laid out a lot of money for this “investment,”
this music -- people think that art isn’t commerce, and that is
sadly mistaken. How do you think I eat? Just because I play drums
in a rock ‘n’ roll band and write songs doesn’t mean that I don’t
get a dollar for it, handed directly into my hand, that I go out
and buy vegetables with.
STARPOLISH: Looking over the last album, it seems
like three members of the band either contributed or wrote songs.
How do you decide which songs make it onto the album? When you
have more material then you can use, how does that process work?
BROWN: That’s a good thing,
you know? We always [have more songs]; it whittles itself down.
The producers makes some choices and suggestions, some songs breath
a bit more and come to life a bit more, and some songs naturally
go by the wayside. I think that just the natural process of making
an album with numerous songwriters. That’s what happened with
this last album, and with the previous album as well.
STARPOLISH: Is there also a financial thing, in terms
of the value of publishing and making sure you get your name on
one of the songs that goes out?
BROWN: Well, we handle that
in our own way. We have our own formula for addressing that. But
I would say that if I were to give advice to bands, it’s a long
hard talk that you should have between band members. That’s a
very important thing to discuss.
|
|
